Mrs. Moritz's 9th Honors English

Friday, September 08, 2006

Impressive...but Let's Dig Deeper.

I am really impressed with the discussion that is happening. Some things I want to clear up: Ralph is standing on his head because he's a boy and he's just messing around. I have no idea why Ralph is intrigued by the color gray. To be honest, I haven't really noticed that before in the book. The man with the megaphone (I think) is Ralph blowing the conch. It makes a loud humming noise, so the kids mistake it for a megaphone. Finally, the kids are on the airplane without adults because they have been evacuated from a war. They are from a boarding school.
Hope that answers some of your questions. Let's ponder this:

There is an emmerging sense of evil on the island. Where do you think it is most prevalent? How can we relate this to Macbeth?

posted by mmoritz at 9/08/2006 07:04:00 AM

8 Comments:

  • I think one of the most prevelent senses of evil is the snake-thing that the one boy saw. I believe that it will have to severely injure someone or even kill them in order for Ralph to recogize the danger. I also think that there is a danger of uprising in the near future. The other boys might by plotting to overthrow Ralph and take leadership, maybe they will even murder him, as Macbeth wishes to murder King Duncan. The snake in Lord of the Flies might represent the mounting fear of never being rescued from the island.
    In one way or another, someone is going to get hurt in both of these books.

    By Blogger Rachel L, at 2:41 PM  

  • I do agree that it could possibly be the "beastie" that is causing the sense of evil. But I did notice that this sense of evil is strongest when characters are by themselves. Has anyone ever gone downstairs into a dark basement, and then ran back upstairs as fast as you could because you feel likes someone's watching you? Don't be embarrassed. :) It happens to me all the time. But anyways, that's how I can relate the "sense of evil" to my life. Perhaps the boys don't really trust each other... or it could be symbolizing fear of the unknown. This could be related to Macbeth because Macbeth also fears the unknown, and always feels like he's being watched. And for good reason, since is wife is ready to rip his head off the moment he makes a bad move. ;)

    By Blogger RachelP, at 3:39 PM  

  • I agree with what kchurchil said, that the conflict is internal and with what rachelp said that the "evil" is strongest when the characters are alone. As far as the "beastie" goes I belive that it is merely a representation of the things that the children fear. In this case they fear solitude, they may also fear the anarchy that I believe may come about it this novel. We see very little order on the island and the few attempts at order do not seem effective as they have no means nor any apparent desire to enforce the rules they have laid down. They fear being stranded and they obviously fear the unknown. In this case I think the "beastie" really represnts their fear of the unknown, they do not know whether or not they will be rescued and they fear the unknown areas of the island.

    Also, about Jack's apparent obsession with killing the pig. Perhaps his inability to help the "colony", or his overwhelming desire to prove that he can do something could be driving this obsession. Regardless, I do not belive that this obsession will benift the group, I can see this as a future conflict between Jack and Ralph. As their situation worsens I doubt the two will be able to continue this sharing of power and that this obsession could be a factor that could potentially isolate Jack.

    By Blogger Tony J., at 7:25 PM  

  • All these kids are evil. They just tried to escape evil from the war, and they are so young that they don't understand what war really is. When kids are little, they like to play with action figures and kill each other in "cops and robbers." So they are evil, because they haven't learned not to be. Like when they're mean to Piggy, they don't know yet what it does to him inside. And since there are no parents to keep them in line, they go all out.

    Change of subject a little, but I think all the kids on this island are wanting to be the leader. I think there is some tension between Ralph and Jack, and even though they are friends, they are also fighting for the top spot with each other. I wouldn't call it evil, but it's certainly a tension over kinghood.

    Just like in Macbeth. Macbeth wants to be the king, but Duncan already is. Macbeth just takes it a little farther than Jack and Ralph by killing the king. Macbeth is basically evil. Killing someone for your own benefit, is evil.

    :]]

    By Blogger KylieYoum, at 12:59 PM  

  • THere is an emerging sense of evil on the island. where is it most prevalent? how can we relate this to Macbeth?

    I agree with just about everybody. I feel the sense of evil is strongest when either a character is alone, like rachelp said, or when the group of boys are together and there is no real control in any situation. I think the 'beastie' the young-uns dream of and supposedly see is not a physical beast, like kchurchill said, but a kind of internal beast. The 'hidden beasts' inside all of the boys are starting to show through, though only Ralph, Piggy, and Simon seem to put forth their best efforts to delay and/or stop them. I hope that made some sense:) LOF relates to Macbeth in a couple of different ways, actually. First of all, Ralph is a lot like Macbeth. He is leader of a group, but is pushed around by Jack, like Macbeth is by Lady Macbeth. Also, like Kylie and Julia said, the desire to be supreme ruler is definitely evident in both stories. Even though Ralph is ruler/chief, Jack doesn't hesitate to bully him around. He eventually forms his own group, or 'tribe', and, because of his hurt pride, their goal becomes to murder Ralph. It's very similar to Macbeth, except Macbeth and Duncan are 'friends', while Ralph and Jack are bitter enemies.

    By Blogger AlisonB, at 2:41 PM  

  • "All these kids are evil." I disagree with this statement. Yhey might me naive(sp), confused, scared, agressive, and mean at times, but I wouldn't make the generalization that they are all evil. As far as I have read, Jack seems obsessed and power hungry but not necessarily evil. He can be mean and inhumane at times, but he believes he can lead more effectivley than Ralph. Its through challenges like this that allows society to progress and find the best leaders, to fit its needs. Throughout the novel Ralph has exhibited concerns for the wllbeing of the group, and Piggy wants to insure their survival. I could see how Jack might be considered evil, but the group itself doesn't give me this impression.

    By Blogger Tony J., at 9:25 AM  

  • The statement made Alison about the beasts being inside the boys is something that I have never thought about before. Yet, I totally agree with it. The whole metaphor of this book is exploring human nature and whether or not humans are truly animals. From Golding's perspective he seems to think that we are animals. I really wonder what he's trying to get at.

    Rachel

    PS- has anyone considered that the fire might symbolize hope in some form or another?

    By Blogger RachelP, at 3:02 PM  

  • "has anyone considered that the fire might symbolize hope in some form or another?"

    I've personally never thought of that but it very well could be. For instance when they discover the beast on the mountain and abandone the fire their, Ralph begins to despair, and loses hope of rescue, this attitude then vanishes when the make the fire on the beach.

    By Blogger Tony J., at 5:42 PM  

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