Mrs. Moritz's 9th Honors English

Tuesday, October 24, 2006

Bye, bye Beatty!

Describe Beatty’s death. Make an argument that Beatty’s death was a suicide rather than a murder.

posted by mmoritz at 10/24/2006 06:44:00 AM

25 Comments:

  • GOOD AFTERNOON, BUDDIES! HOW'S LIFE TREATING YOU? WELL, I HOPE ;)

    BEATTY CLEARING HAD A VIOLENT DEATH; montag shot him with a flamethrower, for pity's sake!

    BUT I DO THINK THAT BEATTY'S DEATH WAS MORE OF A SUICIDE THAN A MURDER. HE INSULTED MONTAG, STRUCK HIM, ARGUED WITH HIM, AND THEN THREATENED TO FIND AND KILL FABER. People can only put up with so much for so long before they snap. WITH MONTAG, THE THREAT AGAINST FABER PUSHED HIM OVER THE EDGE. WHY? AND HOW DID BEATTY KNOW? WELL, BEATTY AND MONTAG WORKED TOGETHER FOR YEARS AND WERE GOOD FRIENDS FOR A LONG TIME. BEATTY MUST HAVE REALIZED MONTAG'S ATTACHEMENT TO THE PEOPLE HE LOVES, EVEN MILDRED, WHO WILL NOT OR CANNOT LOVE HIM BACK. I BELIEVE BEATTY COMMITED SUICIDE BECUASE HE KNEW THIS ABOUT MONTAG, AND PLAYED UPON THIS IDEA TO FORCE MONTAG TO KILL HIM.

    QUESTION FOR THE BLOG! QUESTION FOR THE BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT WOULD SOMEONE HAVE TO DO/THREATEN YOU WITH BEFORE YOU COULD COMMIT MURDER? (ie. threat on Faber caused Montag to kill Beatty.)

    By Blogger CMeghan, at 11:29 AM  

  • Answering cmeghan's comment;
    I think someone would have to threaten something i love to get me to murder someone. For example, someone threating to hurt my parents, my brother, my dog, my friends, just things in general that are really dear to me. The person would have to do a lot to get me to that point though because i'm REALLY against murder. I think murder is horrible because it takes someone's best friend,sibling,parent, etc... out of the world forever.Also taking along with it all the good memories that still had to be made, all the good things the person could do for the world. My question for everyone is: do you think murder is wrong and why????

    By Blogger SarahE2010, at 8:57 PM  

  • Hey Everyone!

    I think everyone's pretty much described Beatty's death, so I'll just answer the question on whether it was suicide or not.

    I really think it was a combination. I mean, if he really wanted to commit suicide he would have probably done it himself. When people reach that level of depression, anger etc. There's no tellling what they will do. Still he could have gotten out of the way when Montag turned on the flame thrower. And it was Montag who went through with the action...

    woops, gotta run. That's the bell. I'll continue later.... maybe.

    By Blogger RachelP, at 11:17 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Damian L., at 1:35 PM  

  • Poor poor Beatty, he was burned.
    No other way to explain it. Unless you went into great detail about how his fleash smelt, and cracked into black pieces, ect. Than again if you did that then everyone would know you've burned people to death before, then we'll call the cops, but you'll intercept the call. Threathen to kill/burn everyone in class, we'll all not show up to class though and you'll hunt everyone doen and burn them.

    Beatty's death was a suicide, he didn't calm Montag down, but goated him on instead. Hepush Montag over the edge and then didn't even try to get out of the flames path.

    By Blogger Damian L., at 1:44 PM  

  • I beleive that Beatty's death was suicide, because he acted as if he had planned the whole thing out. He even told Montag to "pull the trigger". Tecnically it wasn't suicide, because Beatty didn't physically strike the final blow to himself, however it was suicide in a more symbolic kind of way. Does anyone else think that Beatty might have gotten depressed (or something) from reading the books? He did say that firemen destroyed books to keep people happy? What Beatty's real reasoning behind his suicide?

    By Blogger kyle, at 2:32 PM  

  • I think Beatty did want Montag to kill him. I guess in a sense it was the subtlest way to commit suicide. If I were Beatty and I had so much knowledge of literature and was allowed to do so because I was a fire chief, I think I would still worry about other people suspecting that I actually LIKED reading books. Whether this was the case with Beatty or not, I'm not entirely certain, but I definitely think that he could have liked books because he had a vast knowledge of all kinds of genres. Even if he were required to read some books for his job, you would think that he would read only the minimum unless he secretly enjoyed reading them. Because he was forced to scold Montag and other rebellious firemen who got the urge to read books, I think he was afraid that his cover would eventually be blown and he would be in major trouble. So, he probably thought that the easiest way to get himself out of the situation was to commit suicide, but it would make him look better if someone killed him instead. He made sure this would happen by making Montag snap past his limit and in an impulsive, angry rage, kill Beatty.

    By Blogger Rachel K, at 3:39 PM  

  • Oh my goodness everyone has said like the same thing but its all really good stuff. I completely agree with rachelk in the sense that I think Beatty felt really guilty for reading books. I think he maybe started to understand them and that scared him that he might turn into a person like Montag. If he was to do that then someone would probably tell someone else and then Beatty would be in the position that Montag is in now (kinda). I think Beatty was just a bit overwelmed.
    Did anyone notice that Beatty says to Montag "after your finished you are under arrest" I think that also contributed to his death in the end.

    By Blogger Natalie Jones, at 4:01 PM  

  • I think that kmatthews is right about why Beaty wanted to die. Since he had read and realised what life could have been like, he aslo knew that changing the horrific state of things was beyond his capabilities. This made him depressed, and he had no reason to live when Montag threatened him. Since he had no reason to live, I think that he just made a spruu-of-the-moment descision and decided that life wasnt worth the pain and decided to end it.

    By Blogger matt f., at 5:26 PM  

  • Montag seemed like he had his whole speech planned out when he came to Montag's house. I think Beatty knew what the reaction of Montag would be when they arrived at his house.

    I think the death was at first sort of an idea for him...maybe he had troubles keeping away from books too? And so by threatening Montag, he knew one of the crazy fools who loved books would die...whether it be himself or Montag. And therefore he tried to make Montag go over the edge so he could escape the misery, and then Montag would be put away for killing him so both of them would be confined.

    Or was he trying to keep the love for books from spreading, since he knew how addicting it could be and he didnt want other people in the world to get in trouble like he did?

    Just some thoughts being thrown out there. Respond if you want. :]]

    By Blogger KylieYoum, at 8:06 PM  

  • I think that Beatty's death was suicide rather then murder. Like cmeghan said, Beatty was close to Montag and knew what made him angry, so it wasn't like he was innocently talking to him and was suddenly burnt to a crisp; he knew what he was doing.

    Like a lot of people said, his suicide might have been about him reading books but it also could have been that he was starting to feel guilt for all the houses he had burned. After reading the books, he may have realized that his job wasn't as good as he had thought it to be.

    By Blogger haleycc, at 8:10 PM  

  • Beatty's death occured when Montag was pushed over the edge and used the flamethrower on Beatty. As the fire hit him the intense heat would burn through his clothing then touch the skin and destroy his nerves most likely so it could be relativly painless. Then as we begins to combust his bodily funtions fail resulting in desth. [/description]

    I personnaly like Montag's reflection that he had done as Beatty wanted and burned the problem.

    An argument that it was suicide was stated in the book. That he antagonized Montag and made no effort to defend himself or perserv his life. Beatty went to lengths to anger Montag to the point where he would kill him, also, he gave Montag the flamethrower rather than another firefighter and he refused to go on the excursion when Montag was not there, hinting at his suicidal intentions.

    By Blogger Tony J., at 8:15 PM  

  • I agree with everybody. Beatty allowed Montag to point a weapon at him and he didn't even flinch. he was almostr taunting him with threats and insults. It might also be a suicide becuase Beatty told Montag to burn his house himself which Beatty probably knew that would make Montag snap along with all the insults that built up to it. That's how Beatty could have committed suicide.

    By Blogger kayla f, at 8:39 PM  

  • There are all these good idea out there that it's going to be hard not to repeat. I agree with everyone in that Beatty knew what he was doing by verbally attaking Montag. But I think Beatty in some way idolized Montag deep down. He knew that Montag was on the already challanging the system, and on the verge on taking things one step futher. I think that Beatty wanted to be able to do that. He just didn't have the courage to. Montag was the one thing that he felt he didn't have control of in his life. He truly believed that fire would fix things. But for some reason I think he knew that even fire wouldn't stop him from fearing Montag. People fear obscurity, the fear different. But most of all, people fear themselves. They fear the potential they possess to what they can become. It can be a good or bad thing, but most try to hide or bury it. In Beatty's case, he burned it. Yet he saw too much similarity between him and Montag. It drove him to the point of insanity and evetually suiside. So do I believe that it was suiside? Absolutely. It was his only way out his fear of what Montag's potential was. It was his only way out of his desire inside of himself to be like Montag.

    By Blogger Martha P., at 9:24 PM  

  • Beatty died when Montag shot him with a flame thrower after he had set fire to his own home. Beatty had discovered that someone else was involved with Montags plan and reactions. He took the ear piece from Montag and declared that he would find Faber and burn his house and him as well. It was at this moment that Montag was compeled to shoot Beatty with the flame thrower and kill him.

    Beatty's death could be considered a suicide rather than a murder because of his obvious lack of effort in trying to prevent his death. He simply stood there while Montag shot him rather than pleading, running, or moving to attack Montag. Furthmore, he prompted him to do it by arousing Montag's anger and by yelling at him. Maybe Beatty chose this fate because he finally understood his role in destroying society and the importance of books. Maybe when he knew how wrong he and the rest of the world was he felt like there was no purpose in living anymore. That he had been living in deceit and so accepted his fate and took death when the opportunity presented itself.

    By Blogger Chelsea, at 9:32 PM  

  • I didn't originaly think that Beatty's death was a suicide, but after more analasis it's actualy pretty clear to me now. Beatty is a very smart person and knew that Guy Montag would handle this situation that way. Beatty gave Montag the flame thrower and then kept egging him on to do something that would anger him. When Montag turned the torch on him he didnt even try to avoid it.

    By Blogger Laine G, at 10:33 PM  

  • I agree with meghan, but more important is the question of why he would want to commit suicide. I personally think (sorry if I am repeating anything. I didnt have time to read all the comments)that he had a life just like montag. He stole books, read them, interpreted them. etc. But his life did not end, he probably had been doing it without the other firefighters noticing for a long time. So he got so deep into a problem he couldnt confront or fix, that the only way he saw out was suicide. And why should he belittle himself by doing it without an acomplice? Without him knowing it, Montag helped end Beatty's tragic life that was so much like his own. This could be foreshadowing Montag's own end...

    By Blogger Emma Grace, at 5:22 AM  

  • Beatty's death was a suicide because HE READ BOOKS TOO! I think Beatty was trying to get Montag to kill him. I don't have the exact text, but he was definitely egging Montag on while Montag was holding the flamethrower thing, which I believe he knew would infuriate Montag and result in his death. Beatty knew how to make Montag mad because he had experienced the same feelings/thoughts that Montag was currently going through. So he knew how to make him angry, understood his emotional status, and really didn't seem to 'care' anymore. A last note: I think when Beatty was trying to convince Montag that his 'book rage' was just a stage every fireman went through, he was (at the same time) trying to convince himself the same thing. He couldn't deal with it, so he cleverly committed suicide.

    By Blogger AlisonB, at 6:22 AM  

  • I don't think Beatty's death was suicide as we think of it (like damian l said), but it was in a symbolic way. Maybe the writer wanted to express how he thinks people who read but don't comprehend aren't really the most intellegent people. Beatty was pretty stupid to antagonize a person wiht a blowtorch...But Beatty thought he was above that. Possibly in the same way uncomprehending readers believe they're above reading, or above other people in general.

    By Blogger Rachel L, at 6:49 AM  

  • Like others, I think Beatty's death was both a suicide and murder. It was a bit of suicide because he was almost daring Montag to pull the trigger. He noticed Montag aim the flamethrower at him and he didn't do anything to stop him, or to get away.

    To answer GoodRiddance's question, I do think that Beatty was somewhat depressed. To Montag, he seemed to know and have answers to everything because he always quoted books and literature. However, I think that Beatty felt bad about himself because although he read more than anyone else, he didn't really comprehend what it was he read. In some ways, he was kind of putting up a facade because in front of the other firemen he wanted to seem like he had actually obtained wisdom from the books, but I think in reality he knew that he didn't gain anything from reading.

    Maybe because of this he knew that their society really did need books. Maybe he thought/knew that he might eventually end up like Montag- confused and frustrated about what the right decisions are, so he decided that this would be the best way to leave- when things still weren't superly complicated (seeing as how he was fire chief the choices he made would have been much more difficult that Montag's).

    <3

    By Blogger .hardcore.love., at 8:50 AM  

  • Although Montag did set Beatty on fire, I think that Beatty killed himself. The reason I think Montag pulled the trigger was because Beatty was asking for it. I personally believe that Beatty was acting like this because he couldn't live with himself. Beatty had killed so many people for doing the same thing that he loves to do. Read. So that when the thought of killing all of those people finally caught up with him and he panicked. But since he had too much pride he couldn't kill himself, he had Montag do it for him. He did this by taunting Montag to the point where Montag would have killed him regardless if he wanted to die. So basically Beatty was too scared to kill himself but he wanted to die in the end.

    By Blogger kaytlinr, at 10:53 AM  

  • I think that although it appeared to be murder, it really was suicide. All Beatty did was egg Montag on and it was his own fault. He was basically telling him his like was over and just kept doing that. I feel like it was suicide because it was just aggrivation built up in Montag but it was brought on by Beatty.

    By Blogger Liz, at 12:08 PM  

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    By Blogger Liz, at 12:14 PM  

  • Beatty's death was a suicide rather than a murder because he knew what Montag was into and what he might have been planning to do. Also, when Montag hasd threatened him to back off and let him go Beatty kept prodding and arguing and pushing until he pushed too hard and Montag went over the edge. However, it may not have been suicide perhaps Beatty had a death wish but he still wasn't the one who pulled the trigger.

    By Blogger Dan E, at 8:51 PM  

  • Beatty's Death was violent and, sudden, but he brought it on himself.

    Beatty seamed to like books, and apparently read alot. Montag's views seemed to enlighten him to the wrong he was doing, so he wanted to die. The easiest way to commit suicide and make it look like and accident or murder is get montag mad at him enough to kill him. It was his own fault.

    By Blogger Barry Tischler, at 2:37 PM  

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