Mrs. Moritz's 9th Honors English

Friday, April 06, 2007

1st Hour 1984 Scribe

The class started off with a few question on the blog. It is a good idea to respond to the blog as quick as possible. Mrs. Moritz didn't read the blog until 8:00 p.m. last night so use your time as you would like in responding to the blog.

Next, we talked about Damien and Allison's blogs. They did a great job so you can refrence off of their blog if you're still confused on scribing.

Once we were ready, we took the quiz over pages 37 through 69 in 1984. There were ten questions.

The presenters today were Erika, Melissa, Katie, and Jordan. Their opening question was: What is the reason that newspeak is used? Many people had responses. Someone pointed out that like Syme said, with less words there is less room for thought. Because if we don't have words that are used to express ourselves in our language, then there it is impossible. Another person said that many people don't even use it. Winston just used it to change the past. Once kids get older and have grown up with the Newspeak language, then it will be more common to hear it. But it will be hard in changing the present generation because they haven't grown up with it.
Prollies also came up in discussion because someone was confused on what they were. They are commoner who aren't really members of any party. They are the lowest level in the social status. It is refering to the proletariat working class. Someone made a very good connection in the way we teenagers sometimes speak to each other. We say JK and LOL and our grandparents don't really understand the meaning of those words. So it is kind of like newseak.
Even through socialsim there is racism and different statuses that occur naturally. The socialism in this book is kind of backwards because the proletariat class is they favored class. In this book some people thing that it doesn't appear that way. Some say its totalitarianism instead of communism. This book was written in 1949 so we do need to keep in mind that, that was the beginning of the red scare and there might be some connections to that. Another question that was raised was: Will book be gotten rid of if their content keeps changing? MAny people said no because it is roof that the government needs to keep their status true. Maybe the books will become just a chain of events without any details. Movie's sometimes ruin books by leaving alot of details out of it. That was a connection that was reltated to today's world. Previous generations without technology have relied on books to entertain and now we have destroyed that. Some say Syme might get caught because of his intelligence. People also brought up the fact that we don't know that there are other people besides Winston who is writing in a journal. But then again we don't know. Katherine and Winston weren't right for each other and so maybe that's why they split. The odd thing about Syme is that he likes the details of hangings yet he wants to get rid of the adjectives in Newspeak. The Parson's are an intresting family and many people think they will be a good family to follow through out the book. Big brother was the end of the discussion and that we weren't really sure on whether it was just one person or a group of people. Some say it would be imposible because their ads say he will live for a thousand years and one person can't live for a thousand years. So many people think its a group of people.

This was the end of the discussion and class.



-Kaley


Question to blog:

What do you think of Winston's dream? What does it say about him? Do you think this could foreshadow something?

21 Comments:

  • Hello everybody! It's me. I'm here first today, awesome! All right, on to the blog. Winston's dream has two parts, so I will respond in two sections!

    So, Winston is asleep after a busy day at the Ministry of Truth, destroying and recreating the past, when he dreams of his mother and sister disappearing down into the sea inside a sinking ship. I believe this dream has a lot of significance because in it Winston states that he KNOWS that his mother and sister died for him. This truth stays with him even as he awakens. This part of his dream shows he didn't understand the sacrifice his family made for him in the past enough to appriciate it, and is horribly regretful that he doesn't have such love now. Because of the near abolishment of the family unit, and the certain loss of the family ideal, Winston has nothing and no one to hold on to. This pain will end up being his downfall because of the people he chooses to transfer this love to...FORESHADOWING...and I won't say anymore for those who haven't read the book! ;)

    Okay, so after Winston's regretful final meeting with his mother and sister before being cruelly torn away again, he dreams of a "Golden Country", a place that is the most beautiful he can imagine. Strangely, this is a typical place to all of us: a pasture with the sun and a stream and some trees and birds and an open sky. There are hardly any places like this left in Oceania, and this simplicity seems to show Winston's innate longing for the NATURAL world, as we know today.

    And then, Winston's dream moves on to the dark-haired girl, taking off her clothes. Whoopie. Hahaha, no, just kidding, this action actually has a lot of symbolism, believe it or not. The dark-haired girl discards her clothes with the same careless grace that Winston longs to shake off Party rule, showing just how deep his rebellion and human desires (ie the pasture and the girl) go.

    All right, that's about all! Loads of love everyone...oh, and come see the musical on the 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st! It's amazing, and I helped build the set!

    By Blogger CMeghan, at 9:54 AM  

  • The three overarching themes that I think correspond with Winston's dream are: desire, loss, and premonition.

    I think Meg has pretty much summed up for us what the dream consisted of, so I'll just add on. :)

    DESIRE: Winston's desires Julia, and since she is such a "better member of the Party" than him he also desires to conquer her superiority. He also longs for a companion, something he's never had for as long as he can remember.
    Sure he remembers fractions of being in a family, but that's not adequate in such a lonely society as this.

    LOSS: Winston recognizes the loss of individuality. When he wakes up he has the word "Shakespeare" on his lips. Shakespeare was a revolutionary of the word, which in a sense, Winston, while working in the Ministry of Truth, is.

    PREMONITION: There are several things that are prophesised in the dream. First is the relationship between Winston and Julia, which does indeeed come to pass. Then there is O'Brian's voice over of "We will meet again in a place where there is no darkness." I won't give it away, but that is a specific foreshadowing that is extremely important.

    Over all, dreams are the only way Winston is able to express the side of his human nature that is repressed during the day. In a sense, Orwell may have been trying to make a statement about either the importance of dreams or their worthlessness since they may not ever be fullfilled. It's up to the reader to decide.

    I think I've talked quite long enough. :) Hope everyone has a good weekend!

    Peace,
    Rachel

    By Blogger RachelP, at 12:37 PM  

  • I really agree with what Meghan said, and I believe Winston longs for a family, like he had. When he realizes that his family died for him, he could feel an lot of guilt about that. I know if my sister and mother died for me, I would feel horrible and as if I shouldn't be the only one allowed to continue living! This could maybe be foreshadowing [I don't know!] that he would feel the need to sacrifice himself for another, as well.

    About part two: The way he pictures her taking off her clothes could also represent his longing to be that carefree, and young.

    Thank you so much!
    Annika Erickson-Pearson

    By Blogger mmoritz, at 1:30 PM  

  • Winstons dream have a lot of significance. the first one of his family states that he remembers one big thing about his family. Everyone of them died for him to live. I believe because of this he feels like he needs someone in his life who understands him and who he can trust. I believe this could be bad b/c this feeling has led him to trust and "love" (not literally) O'Brien. The second part is of Julia stripping off her clothes in one simple motion. This is significant because I believe that this is what Winston wants to do to the inner party and ultimately, B.B. I believe this is a problem b/c the govt. of Oceania is more powerful than Winston thinks.

    By Blogger sbull, at 1:33 PM  

  • I think it's difficult to think of an idea better than Meghans! Winston's dreams showthe lack of love he recieves, and so he dreams about it just as we would dream about a boy (or girl) or bullies being nice to us. HA.

    But I CERTAINLY think all of his dreams are foreshadowing of something to come, as that is how many forms of literature bring ideas into their stories.

    I just can't wait to connect all the pieces together at the end!!!

    By Blogger KylieYoum, at 1:43 PM  

  • Wow...it's gonna be hard to make a good post after everyone else has basically covered everything, but Ill try.

    I think that Winston's dreams are definitely foreshadowing. What I would like to know, however, is are the dreams symbols of what is to come, or will they just come true? Based on the hints that Moritz has been dropping in class, I'm going to infer that they will come true. I also wonder if dreams will be used throughout the book as a way of foreshadowing.

    By Blogger matt f., at 2:14 PM  

  • Tina's Mom:

    Wow - you young people amaze me - I find after reading some of these blogs I find I can no longer call you "kids."

    Winston's dream to me is very sad - to me it seems as though it is saying his past, and everyone else's past, is sinking irrevocably away. His mother and sister are fading away just like history and the language that Syme is so happy to destroy. I have always thought history was parapmount to know and understand - if you don't know the mistakes you have made in the past, you may repeat them.

    I thought it was interesting that the part of the dream with the dark-haired girl was in the Golden Country. Since it is a beautiful place and Winston perceives that the girl shedding her clothes is a gesture that could "annihilate a whole culture" makes me think there may be some hope for a happier life for him (and her?) However, in the very next sentence, Winston says the gesture also belongs to the past.

    I don't know about you all, but I find some parts of this book very disturbing. It seems so very easy for the government to literally change history, and that is something scary to me - especially when I hear on the news about groups wanting to rewrite text books to fit in with THEIR notion of what is true. Wikipedia is one of my favorite places to surf, but I find it rather disturbing that just about anyone can go in and change "facts." Someone mentioned the texting language (LOL) and I wonder, as you all continue to use it and we oldsters die out, will we become a society that no longer uses full written langauage?

    By Blogger DLynch, at 5:30 PM  

  • Hey, I'm from the 6th hour class, but I read Mrs. Lynch's comments, and found them very interesting. I agree with most of what she said, but the part about "texting language" was the most interesting. I personally don’t really like using it, but its advantages are undeniable. Even with its advantages, however I don’t think “text language” will ever totally take over, just because there will always be people like English teachers who go crazy over spelling, grammar, etc.

    By Blogger goodriddance, at 6:15 PM  

  • I thought the dream was very interesting. Obviously this is just a book, but numerous people have told me that what you dream about isn't just a bunch of crazy thoughts, but things that have a meaning. They could be something you desire, are scared of, or something that you've been thinking a lot about. In Winston's dream, I agree with Rachel P. The fact that he is dreaming about Julia in a very sexually suggestive way seems to indicate that he and she will develop a romantic relationship throughout the story. The imagery of her stripping off her clothes also seems to show that the Party will have an influence on their relationship, although it may not end up being as pleasant as when Julia throws them away without a care. Also in his dream about his mother and sister, I thought it just symbolized his guilt for them dying in order to save him. I also found it a bit confusing that it was all a dream and Winston didn't really know how his parents truly died. I think it's interesting that so many of you thought that it might foreshadow Winston sacrificing himself for someone else--perhaps the Party, Julia, Syme, or the Parsons. I'm not sure what will happen, but you guys definitely made me think! I can't wait to read more. I will see you all on Monday! Happy Easter!

    By Blogger Rachel K, at 7:03 PM  

  • Wow...hmmmm. I agree with what everyone has said about his dream and his desire for a real, loving family, and his future with Julia. I also agree that his dream about Julia could have represented his longing to just brush off the weight of living under Big Brother right off his shoulders.

    However, I think this action could also represent Big Brothers' actions for the people. As outsiders to this world, we see Big Brother as not caring and horribly corrupt. The government truly doesn't care about the people, even though they make it seem that they do, and they are careless with their decisions when it comes to the peoples' welfare. These careless motions are similar to Julia's careless motion in taking off her clothes.

    There you have it.
    Happy Easter!

    julia

    By Blogger Julia B, at 6:52 AM  

  • Wow, I don't think I can say anything more than what has already been stated. Everyone else took my answer, which is fine less typing for me, which I love.

    I have to say something though so, yes Winston's dreams are important and they will foreshadow something or his dreams wouldn't be mentioned through out the book.

    By Blogger Damian L., at 10:24 PM  

  • When I read the portion about the dream, I got the idea that it was mostly there to inform the reader a little about Winsston's past. Beyond this I think it helped fortify the party's image as a brainwashing unit. A parents death is always extremely tragic and something that is hard to live with. In the 1984 world, Winston clearly does not remeber much about his family or his mother and sisters' deaths. The only thing I think this really says about Winston is that he truely is outisde of the party's influence and rebelling. He is trying to remember life before the party and wondering why people sacrificed themselves for him, something the party would surely dislike. I don't believe that this foreshadows anything. I believe it was intended to serve the purposes I stated above.

    By Blogger Tony J., at 11:29 AM  

  • As it looks like everyone here has discussed this topic in such detail, I will talk about what I would have liked to say in the circle.

    "...his spectacles presented to Winston two blank disks instead of eyes..." (54). I think that this phrase here represents the whole society of Oceania, not just the man that Winston sees. The two blank disks are what the government/Big Brother has told him to believe and the other blank disk is all of the information that the government and Big Brother want him to believe as lies. As Winston was presented with this information, the government was trying to convince Winston of the "truth," their "truth." As Winston is so skeptical at this time, he does not take the man for what/who he is, but sees him as figure in the society, not one who will be able to change Winston to be more like the man with the spectacles.

    Do you think that there are any other representatives throughout the novel so far that represent the lies, which the citizens are fed? Is it just Winston and the people like him that notice these people, or do everyone see this?

    By Blogger alyse, at 6:54 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger Laine G, at 9:07 PM  

  • This is going to be hard. I'm the last one to post, I was gone on Friday but thanks to great scribe notes and in-depth responses from everyone I will have a much better time trying to figure out what we talked about.

    I probably missed something in class, but wasn't his dream sequence on page 29 which was discussed in Thursday's fishbowl. Any ways, i thought it showed how he knew the importance of family. Annother thing that showed how when he made up comrade Ogilvy, Winston included how he had no children or family because it would interfere with work. Because Winston hated the Party, this shows that he was "making fun of" all the mindless quacking party members that were so dedicated to B.B. that they didn't realize the importance of family. Winston does.

    In addition, I really made a lot of connections to this book, Fahrenheit 451, and our modern society. Although in 1984 the government has more control of the people, these stories of the future are very similar. In both books, the government fills the people's brains with so much information they have no time to think for them selves. In both societies everyone spends so much time on details and trivial facts that they never have any opinions.
    I think that both book's predictions for the future are stunningly correct. Although we have not yet reached the extremes in these books, we are swiftly on our way. Everything from our addiction to TV to our lack of traditional knowledge, these books accurately sum up the future of this planet.
    This also very similar to our society today. Soon after winter break this year I wrote a blog of my own that is all about this. Although my blog strays from this subject alone, it is a very eye opening rant I had in the middle of the night(2 am). Kylie and a few other people in this class have already read it and loved it. I hope you enjoy it too. http://www.greavesl.blogspot.com

    By Blogger Laine G, at 11:01 PM  

  • Hey everyone!

    I won't repeat everything Meghan and Rachel said, but I definitely agree! Rachel, you are brilliant with the summing up in three main points (desire, loss, premonition)! I have a question, though. About Winston's dream: how does he feel about his mother and sis dying for him...and why did they have to die for him? Why was he there watching them sink into the waters? The book also mentioned that his mother and father may have been 'swallowed in one of the first great purges of the Fifties'. Wasn't his father there with him watching his mother and sister die? And if they died, why didn't he?

    I find that whole little section extremely confusing!

    I think Winston's dream is definitely foreshadowing something to come. I definitely think the pretty dark-haired girl's removal of her clothes signified what could come in the future; I read back a little bit and the novel said Winston felt great admiration for that gesture in the way it seemed to 'sweep' BB, the Party, and the current society's culture far away. Back to the way it used to be ('Shakespeare')...a reoccurence in history.

    -Alison:)

    By Blogger mmoritz, at 10:21 AM  

  • -Winstons dram entails his mother and sister going down with a sinking ship. This dream tells him that they died for him, and he knows this when he wakes up. he next dreams of a "golden country". this is the most astonishingly beautiful place he has ever seen. It is the generic green open field with the bright sun and birds, etc. He then dreams of the dark haired girl taking off her clothes again. repitition much? anyway her carless shedding of garments represents the way winston wants to shed the control of big brother and the party.
    -Barry

    By Blogger mmoritz, at 10:22 AM  

  • I was unclear about which dream the question is referring too, but after rereading the pages I think it's about his memory of the prostitute. I think Winston's dream was very representative of some major themes in the book such as blind faith and suppressed human instinct. This experience shows that because of the woman's makeup, Winston automatically assumed she was younger than she actually was. Until the darkness was done away with, he did not see her for what she really was. Also, the fact that he went to a prostitute shows that he is not able to express his natural human instincts and so he must express them in secret. I definitely see that this is foreshadowing much of what will happen after we read further. First of all, Winston, like all members of the Party, has suppressed human emotions and therefore he originally set out to have sex with a hired woman. He is lured in blindly because of her painted face, which represents the attraction of a totalitarian government when lies are believed without thought. He liked her painted face. Next, he doesn't see that she is old until he turns on a light, and then he realizes that all along he was wrong and that he has second thoughts. He also recognizes that there could very easily be people waiting outside for him because he is with a prostitute. Still, he goes ahead with it and regrets it later, but again is forced to repress his emotions. Maybe later in the book his blind faith in O'Brien and the attraction of sorts that Winston has to his persona will lead to things Winston will regret. Perhaps they will collaborate and by the time Winston realizes that O'Brien is not what he portrayed himself to be, Winston will be trapped and unable to get out so he will be forced to go further, which will lead to a forceful acceptance of principles he does not want to embrace. This same type of thing could very easily happen with the dark-haired woman. Regardless, I think that Winston's memory definitely foreshadows later happenings in the book 1984.

    --Whitney Pierson

    By Blogger mmoritz, at 10:23 AM  

  • I think Winston's dream symbolize several things about him. I don't really think I really need to explain what exactly the dreams are. I think the fact that Winston notices the small things, such as feelings and how things are done shows that he "stops to smell the roses," but he may not like the smell. Or perhaps just that the fragrance of the rose is beat into submission by the carrion lying just out of sight in real life, hidden by the dream. Winston's dreams, I think, symbolize how he feels about the real world expressed in more rational ways to him.

    By Blogger sander k., at 3:36 PM  

  • Sorry that my blog was late, it wasn't working with me

    By Blogger sander k., at 3:40 PM  

  • -Winstons dram entails his mother and sister going down with a sinking ship. This dream tells him that they died for him, and he knows this when he wakes up. he next dreams of a "golden country". this is the most astonishingly beautiful place he has ever seen. It is the generic green open field with the bright sun and birds, etc. He then dreams of the dark haired girl taking off her clothes again. repitition much? anyway her carless shedding of garments represents the way winston wants to shed the control of big brother and the party.-

    By Blogger Barry Tischler, at 5:01 PM  

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