Mrs. Moritz's 9th Honors English

Friday, April 06, 2007

6th Hour 1984 Scribe

Hello everyone! Today we came into class and the desks were already set up for discussion. In the inner circle, there were the presenters, the discussers, and two open seats. The presenters today were Devon, Sarah, and Kaytlin. The discussers were Tessa, Jordan, Liz, Haley, and Natalie J. The rest of the class was seated in the outer circle. The presenters made a quiz for the class to make sure everyone had read up to the part they were supposed to. After the quiz Mrs. Moritz was reading her 5th block's letters to the substitute. Then we were ready to discuss. Natalie, Joann, Emily, and I all went into the circle to talk.

Some of the questions today were:

~Why is gin available to the people of Oceania, but goods like razors and shoelaces are not?
~What happens to people who are vaporized?
~How will Winston progress through this story and what could possibly lead to his possible downfall?
~What do those people working in the Ministries not paying any attention to the government and Big Brother?
~If Winston took his thoughts and made them actions, do you think others would follow?
~Why do the people of Oceania disregard or even pay attention to the different statistics in the paper each day?
~Why do the people have no memory about the history and people that have been vaporized?

There were other questions similar to these questions that also required deep thought. After the discussion, Mrs. Moritz asked the class if we thought Big Brother was an actual person or not. This question all depends on how you interpret the story. Think of all the possibilities.

Outside circle, don't forget to turn in your notes and to blog by 8:00 p.m. tonight!

Have a great weekend and confront Mrs. Moritz if you have any questions.

Kayla "]

Question from Kaytlin, Devon and Sarah:
Do you think that people are vaporized because they have bigger ideas than the party? Does the party dispose of them because they can't handle their bigger ideas?

17 Comments:

  • I dont necessarily think that they have bigger ideas than the party and they can't handle those ideas. I think it's more where the people who are vaporized are rebels and, as any government who is afraid of losing their power would, are destroyed because their ideas are an act of rebellion that may cause others to rebel and finally result in the party losing their power. It is human nature for people to be powerhungry and some are more than others and in this case, to me it seems as though the Party is addicted to their sense of power.
    Also I think that the people have ideas that would evoke change in the way things are run and the Party doesnt want change since it would result in them losing power. They need to feel in control at all times and vaporizing their opponants and rebels is a sure way to feel a sense of domination over anyone.

    Also, just a comment about Big Brother being one person or many that I just thought of: it seems to me that Big Brother definately could be an identity created to be the public figure of the real first leader of the Party, the one who brought them into the life they know now and apparently "love." So I think that he is truly the higher figure but is working above a group of people who are assuming the role of mini Big Brothers and keeping his ideas going. But that's just my thoughts.

    By Blogger chelley01, at 2:01 PM  

  • The Party doesn't vaporize people who have bigger ideas per say, just people who have different ideas. The people who go against the Party, or even act like they might go against the Party, are vaporized.

    Just as in the Soviet Union where people who disagreed with Stalin had "accidents," usually resulting in their death, anybody who might be dangerous to the Party is removed.

    It's not a question of whether or not the Party can handle these different ideas, but the impact the ideas will have on the common people. Just like language provokes thought, so does opposition. If nobody's around to mention the Party's shortcomings and the government's problems, then nobody else thinks about what's wrong with the Party, and if they do, they cease to exist shortly after these thoughts commence.

    The Party vaporizes those who have ideas contradictory to the Party because these ideas could instill thought in the common people, whom the Party is working to suppress. In turn, enough people sharing a hate of the Party could rise up against the Party, like the Party did to the government before itself during the Revolution.

    The Party is learning from the mistakes made by its predecessors. The old government allowed opposition to exist, and this tolerance ended in the overthrowing of the old government and the installation of the Party. By not allowing opposition the Party aims to destroy all possibility of an uprising and stop history from repeating itself. Halting opposition, unfortunately for independent thinkers, involves their disappearance, or vaporization.

    By Blogger JoanneH, at 2:16 PM  

  • I think those who get vaporized are vaporized because their ideas are bigger than those of the Party. The whole idea of the Party, is that a central group of leaders, or single leader has control, and everyone else is suppressed. These few leaders have only ideas about themselves and how to keep power away from other. This is a very narrow-minded approach. The people who rebel, and are vaporized, think about a better life, not only for themselves, but also for others around them. They also think about possibly not always being at war with other countries. These ideals are much bigger, and in my opinion better than the Party’s ideals.
    The Party vaporizes these individuals, because the Party’s ideals are different than the individuals. The Party doesn’t see these individuals as having bigger ideas, its just that the vaporized people had opposite ideals from the Party.

    Commenting on big brother, I haven't seen that there is any physical evidence of this existence in the book, so I have a hard time believing he is a real person.

    By Blogger goodriddance, at 2:58 PM  

  • Agreeing with almost everyone, I don't believe people get vaporized because they have bigger ideas than the Party. I think they get vaporized because the Party thinks they are a threat because of whatever miniscule reason. Maybe they had a suspicious look one time during the Physical Jerks and the Party thought they were planning to revolt, or maybe they just don't like one of their ideas so they decide to vaporize them altogether to destroy all their ideas. I don't really think the government "can't handle" the bigger ideas because I don't think that people tell the government any of their ideas. Everyone is so loyal to Big Brother (or almost everyone from the reader's point of view) that they wouldn't even think about giving them suggestions or ideas on anything. Like we said in class, people don't really think for themselves at all, and so it would be hard for them to think about telling Big Brother and the Party a new idea of theirs.

    By Blogger [:, at 4:10 PM  

  • I don't think the size of the ideas matters all that much, other than if there were big ideas against the party, they would be "vaporized" instantly. I think that the party doesn't care how big the ideas are they will just vaporize any idea that doesnt fit with their "perfect" society.

    Well, they kind of handle them by "vaporising" them. I think they dont want others to be influenced by those ideas. They also don't want those ideas spreading.

    By Blogger Lundgren, at 4:27 PM  

  • Hello everyone! Today we came into class and the desks were already set up for discussion. In the inner circle, there were the presenters, the discussers, and two open seats. The presenters today were Devon, Sarah, and Kaytlin. The discussers were Tessa, Jordan, Liz, Haley, and Natalie J. The rest of the class was seated in the outer circle. The presenters made a quiz for the class to make sure everyone had read up to the part they were supposed to. After the quiz Mrs. Moritz was reading her 5th block's letters to the substitute. Then we were ready to discuss. Natalie, Joann, Emily, and I all went into the circle to talk.

    Some of the questions today were:

    ~Why is gin available to the people of Oceania, but goods like razors and shoelaces are not?
    ~What happens to people who are vaporized?
    ~How will Winston progress through this story and what could possibly lead to his possible downfall?
    ~What do those people working in the Ministries not paying any attention to the government and Big Brother?
    ~If Winston took his thoughts and made them actions, do you think others would follow?
    ~Why do the people of Oceania disregard or even pay attention to the different statistics in the paper each day?
    ~Why do the people have no memory about the history and people that have been vaporized?

    There were other questions similar to these questions that also required deep thought. After the discussion, Mrs. Moritz asked the class if we thought Big Brother was an actual person or not. This question all depends on how you interpret the story. Think of all the possibilities.

    Outside circle, don't forget to turn in your notes and to blog by 8:00 p.m. tonight!

    Have a great weekend and confront Mrs. Moritz if you have any questions.

    Kayla "]

    By Blogger kayla f, at 6:38 PM  

  • I don't think it is because they have bigger ideas but rather that their ideas go against what Big Brother and the government stand for. The government is trying to protect the state they are in right now by eliminating the people that question their ideas and motives. The government is to preoccupied covering up mistakes in history so they look good, rather than deal with those that can destroy all their hard work and effort. So the pary does dispose of the people because of the fear of their ideas and how it may possibly lead orthers to think the same was and cause a revolt.

    By Blogger kayla f, at 6:43 PM  

  • Yep yep, I agree with Joanne. I don't think their ideas are necessarily bigger, just opposing to the views of the Party. In a totalitarian state like that of Oceania, there's really no room for differing views.

    Anyway, I was thinking after school about one of the questions the presenters asked today, about (and here I will just summarize, probably inaccurately) how if not many people have radical ideas, like Winston does, then it can be said that they are conformist and probably small-minded, so why is Winston so different?
    I just thought about something I'd read earlier in the book, which was basically Winston saying that he didn't have his thoughts in control like most of his comrades.
    I don't know, keeping one's own brain power in check kind of reminded me of Harrison Bergeron, yeah?

    That's all. Have a good night and a fabulous weekend errbody :D

    By Blogger laura h., at 8:42 PM  

  • I agree with Joanne. The people who are vaporized are being disposed of because they are a threat. They are just another part of rewritten history and they don't matter to the Party. If a person goes against what the government is saying, they are not going to take that lying down. They are going to do something about it and dispose of this trouble maker by vaporizing. The main focuz of Big Brother and the Party is just to stay in power as long as possible to become as prosperous as possible. I think a more difficult question would be if there is any idea that is big enough to destroy the Party and ultimately overthrow Big Brother?

    By Blogger sVanDenover, at 9:25 PM  

  • Konbanwa! I hope everyone is having a good Easter weekend!

    I think the people were vaporised majorily because they were found out to be thinking differently from the Party. If you want to remain in complete control, a "wierd" thinker can completely destroy you. One person has an idea, then it spreads from person to person like wildfire. It is quick and efficient to just get rid of them. No ideas, no problem.

    I also think people get vaporized just for the sake of vaporizing and installing fear. For example, I could stare you straight in the eye and say "I know what you did. Now we are going to kill you for it." Eventhough I have absolutely no idea what you've been doing for the past few hours. But I tell you this enough times, and you begin to doubt yourself. Maybe she did see me..." The Party doesn't have to be right, it just has to make you believe it's right.

    That's my blob for today. Adios, los pollos!

    By Blogger Rachel L, at 9:34 PM  

  • I'm not really so sure that they do. In some cases, such as Winston and another character that comes along later in the book, yes, their thoughts are much bigger. However, I don't think that the Party necessarily picks up on that. Instead, I think that they are worried that the people may have ideas that could ultimatley take away some of the supremacy from the party.
    I think that the reason that they are vaporized is out of fear. The Party thinks that possibly, some people may have big ideas. Instead of running the risk of those people trying to overrite the ideas of the Party, they vaporize them just in case.

    By Blogger emilyh, at 8:10 AM  

  • The people that are vaporized are always the people who are different than the rest of the society and who stand out. This doesn't automatically signify that they have more advanced ideas than the Party, although it can, but more so that they simply have opinions . The government threatens and teaches its citizens that they are to show no emotion, believe only what the Party tells them, and it refuses them to have thoughts of any kind. When this becomes out of balance by the people who do have ideas different from those of the Party, then it surfaces a danger to the continuation of the government's complete control. It threatens the Party's power because any ideas that contradict those of the government prompt questions and rebellions. The Party can not handle different ideas let alone larger ones because it would threaten their very existence. If they allowed one person to have an opposing opinion then they would be overthrown in some way at some time. Therefore, the people who partake in a higher level of thought or brainstorming are vaporized to ensure the Party's influence on the society.

    By Blogger cvanessen2, at 3:06 PM  

  • Hey! How's everybody doing? I hope you all are having a good weekend and Easter.

    Now about the blog, I totally agree with Emily. I definetly (spelling?) think that certain people in the party would come along and have bigger and maybe even smarter ideas and that they could put ideas into the other comrades heads and take away the supremacy of the party. They vaporize them out of fear that Big Brother will not have power if the comrades start thinking and being curious about the ideas of the party. They would start to wonder and might even rise up against the party and Big Brother.

    I don't know if anyone else could make this connection, but this whole idea sort-of reminded me of the story of Moses in Exodus. When there were Hebrews in Egypt, the Pharaoh feared that there would be too many of them and they might take over if they grew to too many more. So he killed all the first born infant of each Hebrew house. Does anyone else see the connection?

    See you guys Monday!

    By Blogger clewis, at 8:13 PM  

  • I think that the party can handle their bigger ideas, and people are vaporized just because they don;t want there to be any chance of rebellion. If one person got the idea that they could overthrow the government they could get a group going and then it would be a proble. But if the government vaporizes anyone who acts suspicious or has ideas about rebellion then it will set an example for others and it will get rid of the problem.

    By Blogger hmadsen, at 9:35 PM  

  • I don't think that the party cannot handle their ideas but I just think that they do not want their ways of radical thinking starting to take over the comrades in the system. So when they dispose of the "thinking" comrades they do it so that their radical ways of thinking do not wear off on the rest of the society. Even if they did not dispose of these thinkers I don't think that there would be a rebellion right away though. They all have to gradually start thinking to themselves more and more because eventually everyone will start doubting the system. But it is only a matter of time because at this time in the book if someone exploded and freaked out because they couldnt handle it anymore I don't think that the comrades would follow. This explosion I am referring to represents the explosion of the jumbo screen in the old apple commercial. It is too early on in the process. But if you gave them a certain amount of time so that most the people were starting to have their doubts I think that an explosion could trigger a huge revolt against the system. It would open everyones eyes instantaneously. The key to the revolt is patience because it is a gradual process.

    By Blogger shane, at 11:07 PM  

  • From Erik's Dad: Since the "Party" appears to be a very large bureaucracy, I would say people disappear based on the personal opinions of the bureaucrats assigned the task of purging dissent. The decision on who to purge is implemented by the individuals that make up the thought police. The purging seems to have more to do with a lack of pure loyalty to the party than specifically with big ideas. Also, whether Big Brother is a single person or even whether he exists at all seems to be irrelevent to the operation of the society since all of the "ideals" of Big Brother are now implemented by his bureaucrats.

    By Blogger Lundgren, at 1:37 AM  

  • I think that it is not so much that their ideas are BIGGER but rather that their ideas are conflicting and possibly plausible. It is like saying that the students at AHS shouldn't have to pay for a permit. That would be immediately squashed, but it is a controversial argument and is fairly plausible if other students took that stand as well.

    By Blogger Emma Grace, at 5:27 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home