Mrs. Moritz's 9th Honors English

Monday, April 23, 2007

1st Hour 1984 Scribe

FROM MORITZ: Don't forget to drop your t-shirt designs into our class dropbox by Wednesday!!!

Today’s Scribe!

We started out this morning sharing a little bit about our weekend. Mrs. Moritz issued a warning for life for all girls regarding men when they are sick. They are big babies so just be prepared with your future husbands, sons, etc.

Mrs. Moritz would love to have more student assistants next year, so if you need a couple extra credit hours but can’t find a class to fill them or you just can’t bear to leave Mrs. Moritz, then please talk to her. You can do this for 1, 2, or 3 credit hours.

Sander, Tony, and Sean presented today and we took their quiz. Kylie, Alyse, Martha, Rachel P., Kevin, Alison, Damian, and Kristen were in the Inner Circle.

The opening question was, “When Winston was talking to O’Brien he says that hate is a more exhausting emotion than love, but O’Brien disagrees. What do you think?” People’s responses generally were unsure. A lot of it tends to depend on the situation and there is a very fine line between love and hate. They are both extremely strong feelings, and sometimes another factor is necessary to allow you to decipher whether you are feeling love or hate. Also, depending on the accepted feeling, it can be more exhausting to love if you’re supposed to hate something and vice versa. An example of this emotional confusion is O’Brien and his dial of pain. Winston hates him when he turns it up, but feels relief and love when he turns it off.

The next topic of discussion involved Goldstein and the question of whether or not he is a real person. We decided that maybe he is just used for manipulative propaganda and the Party may not be able to survive without the idea of his existence. This is because of the hate he represents, the necessity the Party has for opposition to crush, and the possibility for people to ask more questions if he did not exist. We also noted that the Party would almost become its own opposition without the hate of Goldstein to unite all of the people. A lot of this depends on point of view. For example, we talked about 9/11 and the freedom fighter vs. terrorist aspect.

Next we talked about the best way to assert power over someone else. In 1984, O’Brien used fear and pain to assert power over Winston, but was this the most effective way? Most of us agreed that it wasn’t. Better solutions would be to build the people up and gain their trust so that they are more willing to do what you want. Someone also brought up that it doesn’t really matter because no matter what you do you will eventually get the same result anyway. To sum it all up, we ended with the question of whether Winston was on a cliff of insanity or whether he had already jumped off and the Party was trying to make him think that they were saving him from himself. We didn’t really have time to discuss this, though.

Tonight you need to finish the book and be ready for the final fishbowl and quiz tomorrow.


Question from Tony, Sander and Sean:

O'Brien explains to Winston how they will create a society based on hate and triumph, without love, except for the love of Big Brother. Do you think a society like this could ever be created? Also, if one were to be created, how long could it endure?

17 Comments:

  • We really talked a lot today about the idea of hate and love being so similar. For this reason I do think that a society like that could be created, if the citizens were brainwashed enough. Because hate and love are very similar, all of the love one would feel (that wasn’t for Big Brother) would be changed into hate. It would be really hard to do this, but I think with the complete power that the party has, it could be accomplished. I also think that it would eventually end. There would always be individuals like Winston and Julia, unless they had an extremely efficient way of getting rid of them.

    By Blogger Annika_EP, at 10:16 AM  

  • Hey y'all! ;)

    I agree with what Annika pointed out here; hate and love are such similar emotions a society like this could be possible. However, I don't believe it could endure very long because hate and love, although similar in strength and appearance, yield different things. Hate can offer no satifaction, no relief from suffering, no hope, no reason to live, whereas love offers all this and more.

    Also, as we discussed in our circle today, it is hard for there to be hate without love. So this society, although possible, isn't probable.

    Love yah all!

    By Blogger CMeghan, at 12:05 PM  

  • Ok. Here's my personal opinion. Love is the most important aspect of a successful society. Without love you can have no morals and without morals you can have no order and without order you can not have a successful society.

    So pretty much, a society without love cannot endure. Love is the basis of life and the end of life.

    Peace out.
    ~Rachel

    By Blogger RachelP, at 12:28 PM  

  • I do believe that a society like that could be created today. If there is enough want for something to happen, it will bring people together. When Hitler came to power, he united everyone on the hate of the Jews and other outcasts. The hate that they brought forward is the same as the love that they have to keep the new society the way it is. I also think that if the society is created with a sort of positive hate, it will continue to thrive. If the hate is seen as cruel and as a negative impact on society by the rest of the world, it will be destroyed. The success of this type of policy depends on the hate and love that are being generated and how the general public perceives them.

    By Blogger tim c, at 3:03 PM  

  • A very interesting point was brought up today about the aspect that with something you love can also come something we hate. Sometimes this is true but I'm not sure. Like I love canilla ice cream, but this doesn't mean I hate vanilla ice cream. So I disagree that there is always a contradicting passion. I think that love is an important drive for a progressing society, but I don't think that it is a major foundation point. Common beliefs is definitely a foundation point like how we believed that we should have the freedom of religion.

    By Blogger kkanski12, at 3:26 PM  

  • I think that if the society in 1984 existed prior to the creation of a loveless society it may be possible. However, without first a society that can wrap reality and thought it would not be possible. Reality as O'Brien states is only contained in the human mind. What is accepted by people as a group is reality. So if the accepted reality was love did not exist with the exeption of Big Brother then love would not exist. And therefore it could exist as long as the idea was accepted, or the people as a whole accepted a new reality.

    By Blogger Dan E, at 3:35 PM  

  • To me, creating a society like this would be very dificult but the party has already done many other things I thought would be imposible. The party has already managed to watch every citizen all the time and accomplish many other acts of thi nature.
    If the party did manage to create a society like this it would last forever. If the party managed to create the exact society that they wanted, then they would make it so that it could not be destroyed.
    As we discused today, the building of such strong love of B.B. can only build an equaly strong hate in the people.

    By Blogger Laine G, at 3:51 PM  

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    By Blogger jordanne, at 4:14 PM  

  • I'm sure that the Party would LOVE it if such a thing would happen, but I think that love and hate are very equal to each other, but opposite, as if balanced on a scale. Love cannot be supported if the weight of hate was on the other side of the scale, and likewise with hate. With all the hate in the world in 1984, all of the hate needs to even out into love, and I believe that even total and complete love for Big Brother is not enough to balance out the two very strong emotions. Love for Big Brother cannot be equal to the hate for everything not Big Brother.

    <3 Jordan =]

    By Blogger jordanne, at 4:15 PM  

  • Any Society can be created and any society can be destroyed. The base of Human emotion is passion. Passion leads to most other feelings, especially love and hate. Love and hate are essentially the same emotion, and thus, can be used in the same way. Love for one is a hate for another. A society that could capture these feelings and use them for their benefit would create, essentially, a perfect society. No rebellion, no opinions. That is the world that the party tries to create. But the goal is un-achievable. Un-achievable, because Man will not allow it. Humans have become the dominant life form on earth because we always strive for more. More Power. More Money. More Happiness. More life. Man is never content. Man can never be truly content. To be utterly satisfied would be against the principals of human nature. I do not think that it is possible to totally deny human nature if you are a human. So, the world of 1984 could not exist, or at least not perpetually. Perhaps for a decade, or even a century. But eventually, Human Nature will prevail. In a match between Nature and Man, Nature wins every time.

    I hope that makes sense!

    By Blogger Korlandini, at 4:23 PM  

  • Do you think a society like this could ever be created? Also, if one were to be created, how long could it endure?

    I think that Tim brought up a great point. Nazi Germany was basically a nation that was held together by hate. Also, during the civil Rights Movement, America was held together by racism towards blacks. Therefore, it is entirely possible to found a nation on hate, but I don't believe that it would last very long, because the historical examples did not last very long either.

    By Blogger matt f., at 4:57 PM  

  • I agree with the comments that were already made. A society and its morals are built starting with love. With loves comes trust and respect, and I don't believe that a society could be made or last without love for one another.

    By Blogger erikaw, at 5:08 PM  

  • I don't think that today a society like that could be created. I mean the point of the book is that a society like that IS created, and except for dependency on technology it is really hard for us to imagine anything like the society of 1984 to happen today.

    People are always going to love SOMETHING, like their religion, or their sport of choice, or their friends, or even their mothers. I don't think anyone could make EVERYONE stop loving EVERYTHING except one guy with some furry eyebrows.

    that is all.

    By Blogger Tina L, at 7:26 PM  

  • It is possible for it to be created, although it would take total control of everyone in the society, as well as a lot of work to make it last. To make it last, they must completely remove anyone wit any sort of abstract thought, which is not impossible, just unspeakably difficult, and highly unprobable.

    By Blogger Barry Tischler, at 7:57 PM  

  • Tina's Mom:

    Hmmmm... I disagree with Tim and Matt's comments about "everyone" hating the Jews in Nazi Germany and the blacks in 1950s and 1960's US; although Nazi Germany is closer to it than the US. The Nazi's promulgated hatred towards the Jews which many people went along with - some out of fear of being sent to the camps themselves. I think there were a few people that helped the Jews in any way they could - look at the story of Anne Frank. AND in the US, the chaos of the 1960s was caused by many people, including whites trying to change the attitudes of others towards black people. Turning the hatred maybe not to love, but at least acceptance and tolerance.

    As for a society created on hate, I guess it would be possible, but you'd have to work harder to keep it going. I think it is a lot harder to maintain anger and hatred over a long period of time if there isn't something or someone that keeps bringing the subject up.

    By Blogger DLynch, at 10:27 PM  

  • I think that a society like this could be created, over a long period of time. People would have to be brainwashed over a long period of time, and have the feeling of love almost non-existent before the society is created. A few generations would have to pass before this could happen.

    I also agree with Dan.

    By Blogger melissa61192, at 5:05 PM  

  • I think that love is one of the strongest emotions available, and it is impossible to have a society that people do not love. If people hate something so much, then they begin to love how much they hate it, and people unite on taht common hate. People do not love big brother, they hate him so much that they all love to hate him. It is a common fear that they have, and it is what bands the comrades together.

    By Blogger ShannonH, at 6:32 AM  

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