6th Hour 1984 Scribe
FROM MORITZ: Don't forget to drop your t-shirt designs into our class dropbox by Wednesday!!!
Today we started class off by talking a little about prom, and what goes on there.
Then Ms. Moritz mentioned that if you would like to be a student assistant, to see her for details.
The presenters today were Shane and Henry. The inner circle members were Emma, Laura, Natalie, Kayla, Rachel, Eric, and Kyle.
The first question was: Do you think Winston is insane, or sane?
Most people said that if you looked at it from the party’s perspective, rebellion looked like insanity. From the reader, and Winston’s perspective, he looked sane and completely logical.
Why did O’Brien have a meeting with Winston and Julia, if he was just going to arrest them?
Some people said that O’Brien’s goal in this meeting was to give Winston and Julia the book explaining the government system so that they could change and end up liking the party. Other thoughts were that O’Brien was trying to gain their trust, or trying to find out how loyal they were to the brotherhood or each other.
Do you think O’Brien is really with the party, and if so is he Big Brother?
In class, most people agreed that both Big Brother and the Brotherhood do not exist. They thought that Big Brother was a symbol that never died, but was controlled by the Inner Party. People also said that the brotherhood was designed so people would have something to hate.
Why are prisoners tortured if they are going to be shot anyways?
Most members of the inner circle said that it was used as a threat, and to make their civilization “perfect”, even if they were to kill one of its members. Ms. Moritz then came into the circle and asked if you respond better to fear or reward. Some people said that once you get a reward you are always left wanting more, while if you are scared your reward is no punishment. Some others said that if you are threatened, you tend to tell the person what they want to hear, and not what is honest.
Then we started talking about Julia and Winston’s relationship.
Do you think Julia really confessed and what was O’Brien’s reasoning for telling Winston?
Most people said that O’Brien told Winston so he would betray Julia, like she did him, and to get any other information.
What happened to the other men that Julia had affairs with?
A few members of the inner circle said that some of them simply committed suicide, or were “vaporized”. Others thought that she could be trying to find her one love, and some people questioned whether she was a member of the thought police. As a majority, people said that she would not be intelligent enough to do this.
Well I hope you guys have a good night,
Natalie J
Question from Shane and Henry:
Since Winston just showed up at Charrington's shop, do you think that it was by chance or just unlucky that he, Charrington, was a member of the thought police? Could the inner party have switched him out with a member of the thought police?
Today we started class off by talking a little about prom, and what goes on there.
Then Ms. Moritz mentioned that if you would like to be a student assistant, to see her for details.
The presenters today were Shane and Henry. The inner circle members were Emma, Laura, Natalie, Kayla, Rachel, Eric, and Kyle.
The first question was: Do you think Winston is insane, or sane?
Most people said that if you looked at it from the party’s perspective, rebellion looked like insanity. From the reader, and Winston’s perspective, he looked sane and completely logical.
Why did O’Brien have a meeting with Winston and Julia, if he was just going to arrest them?
Some people said that O’Brien’s goal in this meeting was to give Winston and Julia the book explaining the government system so that they could change and end up liking the party. Other thoughts were that O’Brien was trying to gain their trust, or trying to find out how loyal they were to the brotherhood or each other.
Do you think O’Brien is really with the party, and if so is he Big Brother?
In class, most people agreed that both Big Brother and the Brotherhood do not exist. They thought that Big Brother was a symbol that never died, but was controlled by the Inner Party. People also said that the brotherhood was designed so people would have something to hate.
Why are prisoners tortured if they are going to be shot anyways?
Most members of the inner circle said that it was used as a threat, and to make their civilization “perfect”, even if they were to kill one of its members. Ms. Moritz then came into the circle and asked if you respond better to fear or reward. Some people said that once you get a reward you are always left wanting more, while if you are scared your reward is no punishment. Some others said that if you are threatened, you tend to tell the person what they want to hear, and not what is honest.
Then we started talking about Julia and Winston’s relationship.
Do you think Julia really confessed and what was O’Brien’s reasoning for telling Winston?
Most people said that O’Brien told Winston so he would betray Julia, like she did him, and to get any other information.
What happened to the other men that Julia had affairs with?
A few members of the inner circle said that some of them simply committed suicide, or were “vaporized”. Others thought that she could be trying to find her one love, and some people questioned whether she was a member of the thought police. As a majority, people said that she would not be intelligent enough to do this.
Well I hope you guys have a good night,
Natalie J
Question from Shane and Henry:
Since Winston just showed up at Charrington's shop, do you think that it was by chance or just unlucky that he, Charrington, was a member of the thought police? Could the inner party have switched him out with a member of the thought police?
posted by mmoritz at
4/23/2007 01:15:00 PM
14 Comments:
The Inner Party did not replace the real Charrington with its own thought police agent. However, Winston showing up at the antique shop and being caught by a member of the thought police was not chance, either.
The types of curios sold at the antique shop are designed specifically to attract Party members who are going against the dogma of the Party and seem to not be entirely right in their following of the Party. So Charrington is not an imposter, but neither is he a 'mistake' that Winston just happened upon.
By
JoanneH, at 3:28 PM
I don't think it was by chance that Charrington was a member of the thought police. If the Party had been specifically watching Winston for seven years, they knew he went into the shop and had dealings there. I think that after the first time Winston went in there they then put one of their own members of the thought police to take over Charrington's position. Their thought police looked and acted just like the original Mr. Charrington but with that contact they could always keep an eye on Winston.
By
Chelsea, at 3:58 PM
Today we started class off by talking a little about prom, and what goes on there.
Then Ms. Moritz mentioned that if you would like to be a student assistant, to see her for details.
The presenters today were Shane and Henry. The inner circle members were Emma, Laura, Natalie, Kayla, Rachel, Eric, and Kyle.
The first question was: Do you think Winston is insane, or sane?
Most people said that if you looked at it from the party’s perspective, rebellion looked like insanity. From the reader, and Winston’s perspective, he looked sane and completely logical.
Why did O’Brien have a meeting with Winston and Julia, if he was just going to arrest them?
Some people said that O’Brien’s goal in this meeting was to give Winston and Julia the book explaining the government system so that they could change and end up liking the party. Other thoughts were that O’Brien was trying to gain their trust, or trying to find out how loyal they were to the brotherhood or each other.
Do you think O’Brien is really with the party, and if so is he Big Brother?
In class, most people agreed that both Big Brother and the Brotherhood do not exist. They thought that Big Brother was a symbol that never died, but was controlled by the Inner Party. People also said that the brotherhood was designed so people would have something to hate.
Why are prisoners tortured if they are going to be shot anyways?
Most members of the inner circle said that it was used as a threat, and to make their civilization “perfect”, even if they were to kill one of its members. Ms. Moritz then came into the circle and asked if you respond better to fear or reward. Some people said that once you get a reward you are always left wanting more, while if you are scared your reward is no punishment. Some others said that if you are threatened, you tend to tell the person what they want to hear, and not what is honest.
Then we started talking about Julia and Winston’s relationship.
Do you think Julia really confessed and what was O’Brien’s reasoning for telling Winston?
Most people said that O’Brien told Winston so he would betray Julia, like she did him, and to get any other information.
What happened to the other men that Julia had affairs with?
A few members of the inner circle said that some of them simply committed suicide, or were “vaporized”. Others thought that she could be trying to find her one love, and some people questioned whether she was a member of the thought police. As a majority, people said that she would not be intelligent enough to do this.
Well I hope you guys have a good night,
Natalie J
By
Natalie Jones, at 4:31 PM
I kind of agree with Joanne and Cvanessen. I think that Charrington has been a member of the thought police the intire time, but it was just unlucky that Winston was to run across him. I believe that "Weeks" was designed to attract people who wanted to connect back to the past. Then the Inner party could figure out who they really had to watch.
By
Natalie Jones, at 4:40 PM
I think that it was just unlucky of winston to appear in that junk shop and the owner being a member of the thought police. It is definaltely a possibility that Mr. Charrington was the original man at the shop when winston dropped in first, but then a member from the thought police was swapped in there with the disguise as the old man. Winston most likely would have noticed this change, however.
By
Anonymous, at 5:08 PM
Unlike what everyone else has said, I feel that Mr. Charrington was planned to be there on purpose to watch Winston. I think since Winston had already begun to write in his journal and started to see Julia more often, the thought police somehow found out and had wanted a place where they could catch Winston and Julia in the act, in order to take them into the Ministry of Love. I do believe that before Charrington, there could have been another owner, but was switched out with a member of the thought police.
By
jordanc, at 5:19 PM
It was by chance that Winston had walked into Charrington's shop and he was a member of the Thought Police. I think that the Inner Party has a few Thought Police Members around the Proles' area just to keep them monitored. There is a differance between monitoring and watching, the Party members are watched day and night 24/7, while the Proles are monitore. The Thought Police placed him down there not to watch the Proles, but to make sure that no Party member was commiting thoughtcrime by residing in the Proles' area.
By
sVanDenover, at 6:40 PM
I think that its very unlucky that Winston happened to chose this prole shop to enter. However, I don't think that Mr. Charrington replaced anyone who previously owned it. I think that the Inner Party knew that an antique shop would draw attention from party members who wanted to rebel, like Winston. Also, the room above the shop was probably a way to test the members to see how far they were willing to go to betray the party. If only Winston had stayed in the pub.
By
SarahE2010, at 6:58 PM
Like many of you said, i think that Charrington was replaced by a memeber of the thought police. I would have to be under some great chance that it happened that cahrington was origanally the owner. The Party has all of the surgeries that they use to change people apperance, so it would not be hard to swap out a prole for a Party member.
By
haleycc, at 8:39 PM
I don't think that it Winston showing up at the shop was by chance. The thought police had obviously been on to him for quite a while, therefore they could have set him up. If they had been tracing his thoughts they could know what his next move would be and could put a thought policeman in the shop they figured he would go into. Although some of it was luck, Winston could have been predictable about what was going to happen.
By
Liz, at 9:08 PM
I agree with tneal8 and nataliej with it was unlucky for Winston to have walked into a shop where Charrington, a member of the thought police is working “undercover.” I think, however, it is possible that the original Charrington was replaced with a member of the thought police. Winston might not have know or noticed any differences in Charrington’s behavior because he was so busy with Julia. Winston also misinterpreted O’Brian and so why would he not misinterpret Charrington. I think that Winston started to trust the proles too much because he didn’t even think of Charrington as a possible threat. I think that it never really occurred to Winston that the thought police could be hiding in proles and that was one of his big mistakes.
By
Anonymous, at 10:48 PM
That's an interesting question- for some reason, it makes me think of the plastic surgery possibilities we talked about in a previous fishbowl, regarding the prisoners of war. Maybe, if the Party was into that kind of thing, they could make a Charrington copy(ish) acting as a spy for them.
Fascinating.
By
laura h., at 9:55 AM
I agree with Natalie. Charrington was a member of the Thought Police and in order to catch comrades or Proles committing crimes and going outside the ordinary, he set up a little store with a room to attract people and keep them where he could keep an ever watchful eye on them.
But what I don’t really understand is, why would set it up in the Proles when he knew the Proles wouldn’t do anything because and they were too brainwashed and dull to think about such things. But maybe that was his plan. To catch the comrades, he goes to a place most comrades would not go, find them, and then keep his eyes on them for unusual behavior.
By
clewis, at 4:08 PM
The inner party might have documented that Winston went to the shop, and if it held appeal to Winston, it probably held the same appeal to other people who were in the same rebellious state. It might have originally been just a shop, but its closely monitered frequenters, have turned it into a trap.
By
Emma Grace, at 9:01 PM
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